Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Jun 28, 2007 14:51:53 GMT -7
Today the situation reversed and Germans are behaving exactly as Poles did 6 months ago. They pay a lot of attention, comment, express indignation, etc etc. Isn`t it funny? Yes, more or less as of the poodle biting the masters hand that feeds it. But, it is funny. Charles I consider funny how Germans have just started being very sensitive. They really care what Poles think about them. hahahahaha Instead of ignoring silly provocations whose aim is purely commercial, not political, Germans seem to treat them so seriously, thus adding popularity to the provocation, in the same stupid way as the Polish officials behaved recently. The disease of twinumonia is infectious. Germans got infected! That`s funny. |
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Post by bescheid on Jun 28, 2007 15:30:56 GMT -7
Yes, more or less as of the poodle biting the masters hand that feeds it. But, it is funny. Charles I consider funny how Germans have just started being very sensitive. They really care what Poles think about them. hahahahaha Instead of ignoring silly provocations whose aim is purely commercial, not political, Germans seem to treat them so seriously, thus adding popularity to the provocation, in the same stupid way as the Polish officials behaved recently. The disease of twinumonia is infectious. Germans got infected! That`s funny. You forget so soon, I am German and this is my government of also my employer. And yes, we do care, we care very much of the world around us. We also care of our neighbours including that of Poland. We live in a very serious world around us, if perhaps my self or others of my kind appear to lack in humour, it is not so, for we are very humourios. But that also, you have struck upon a very important point of a division between the concerns of the people and Government. Other then politicians, most working people are more concerned of what their take home pay is, and what it will purchase. They are concerned with the ever increasing cost of Benzin, taxes and up coming of holiday and where to go. The most of thought that is of the coffee room talk in respect to Poland, is the vegetables, cheaper wash machines, the past G8 meeting and what perhaps the future will bring. Of course there will always be the politec talk, but so much of a concern as exampled here. Of local,the retirement age being pushed up {And I [was] retired}, where in Spain, Italy,south of France, America Florida or California to find the best sunshine. But what of the jest pages of publications such as shown in Spiegel? You are correct with that, for it is what it is, a jesting of leaders. But, this is a dangerous mind game to play on the public. For it is psychological that this imprints into the subconscious mind as a subliminal suggestion, in as much as of the long past war time propaganda publications. And this fact is not over looked by our leadership of our respective nations. For it is used to good effect. Charles |
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Post by bescheid on Jun 28, 2007 16:04:38 GMT -7
Dear people, Tonight we were watching the Dutch 22.00 hours news and saw an item about Angela Merkel, and her popularity in Germany because of her chairmanship of the EU and how she dealt with the G8. Both my parents and I find Merkel a very good bundeskanzler of Germany, and my parents aren't fond of Germany or Germans. My mother is irritated every time she sees the Kaczynski twins, and she said that she can't understand why the Poles voted that midget as a president. She say that they look strange, behave strange and can't understand what the people saw and see in them. They are a sort of trolls in her eyes. She even is a little bit ashamed of Poland and find it hard to understand the Polish position. Anyway the Polish government is crazy in her view! Pieter You are half correct with the popularity of Bundeskanzlerien Angela Merkel. She is very popular. But, she is not so popular in the Civil Service area {German}. For this was a mess, and still contnues to be a mess. With the very most of important support facilities of government in Bonn, and with the Government being in Berlin, means off the sweat of the working people. Commuting is a necessary cost between the two cities. For this, the Kanzlerin has ignored, in that stead, has chosen to concentrate on foreign affairs with her many skills in administrative negotiation. Then created the situation for the various directors to make do. Charles |
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Jun 29, 2007 0:15:50 GMT -7
You forget so soon, I am German and this is my government of also my employer. I never forget it. And I always try to be fair in the forum when I write about German topics. But if something is funny, I will speak out about it. The picture is funny in the sense that it is mischevious. Like a practical joke played on Merkel and German sensitivity, but primarily a giant satire on Kaczynski brothers. One cannot hold laughter after seeing them as infants while in real life they are trying to look and sound so very serious. Don`t take any offence, the picture is funny and I want to see more. hahahahaha How can a picture of innocent babies sucking at woman`s breasts evoke any wrong associations? Are you against maternity??? hahahahaha |
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Post by pieter on Jun 29, 2007 2:45:27 GMT -7
The only one I don't like and do not find funny is; We are getting out of Poland   Unfortunately, it is so painlessly true. But those young people don`t show the gesture to us in general. They show it to employers and politicians. I don`t feel offended at all. Pawian, I am neither, but just don't like the cover, because even though I am a person from a country in which this sort of images is day to day business, and a country that is seen as the Sodom and gomorra of Europe in Polish eyes, because it was and is one of the most (radical) liberal European countries, I don't like that guesture towards the country you come from, which gave you your education, your upbringing and etc. Poland has had a long past with troubles and a hard transition period with the shock therapy of the ninetees (Leszek Balcerowicz's Plan Balcerowicza), and the neo-liberal market reforms of the left and right coalition governments during that period and after Balcerowicz. This pointing your middle finger to Poland is saying f**k you to your past and present and leaving you roots behind. It is being ungreatful towards your ancestors, grandparents, parents, friends, colleages and compatriots. It's bad taste! This is exactly what I hate about the Modern culture in my own country, the rudeness and primarily focus on materialism and consumerism only! I understand that young people want a change, but pissing on your own country, by the press or young people won't solve problems. The cover did not shock me at all because I saw the gesture in several Western covers also, but the message behind it did annoy me! Maybe I am one of those oversensitive people, who is irritated to quickly, but that is better than to be indifferant, like so many of my generation! Pieter P.S.- I am not shocked easily, because of the country I come from and the awareness of history (especially the European and world history of the 20th century), and the harshest movies, docu's and sensored news material of attrocities around the world. |
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Post by pieter on Jun 29, 2007 3:02:24 GMT -7
Dear people, My mother is irritated every time she sees the Kaczynski twins, This peculiar feature is shared by many Poles hahahaha including me. I am sure he won`t get another chance. His popularity level is extremely low. Yes, it is hopeless. PS. Once I asked you a question but you might have missed it. I want to know why other smaller countries like Holland, for example, didn`t support Kaczynskis and their proposition? Didn`t the Dutch want more voting power? Pawian, The Dutch did not support the Kaczynskis, because the Dutch objection to the European proposals of the German chairmanship initailly where more against the elements which supported the old constitution and more European central influence. In contrast to the Poles the Dutch weren't against the voting system, because the Dutch voting power is minimal anyway! There was not that mutch fuss about the voting system in Holland as in Poland. The criticism of the Polish stance in the negociations was the way in which the Polish negociators were behaving. To be frank I don't have enough information and knowledge to be able to judge on that. I don't always trust even my own Dutch TV news, my Dutch newspaper and radio, because I want to make my own judgement. Therfor I am also dependant on my "Polish sources", Wojtek (Bescheid), you, the BBC, German and Belgian television and other sources. Pieter |
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Jun 29, 2007 12:49:18 GMT -7
I don't like that guesture towards the country you come from, which gave you your education, your upbringing and etc. You are a very romantic person, probably more romantic than an average Pole. You stick to certain ideals and that`s great. However, these young people are less romantic. It doesn`t mean worse love of their country. Most of them declare that when the situation improves, they will gladly come back and work in Poland. For the time being, they see better prospects abroad. They will never forget their Polish education and upbringing. After spending some time abroad, they will appreciate it a lot, I know it because I experienced the same feeling. They will use what they learnt in Poland wherever they are. What is good is the fact they are getting experience and polish the languages. It will be invaluable after they come back to Poland and start looking for jobs here. Poles have always been migrant birds. We are the nation of travelers, didn` t you hear about Jan z Kolna? hahahahahaha en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_KolnoNo, they will not leave anything. Polish roots are stamped into their minds and bodies, can`t be removed without mental damage, most of them will always remain Polish. Oh, no, it is not so bad. Just going abroad to learn about foreign countries, you know, Travel broadens mind. And earn a few bucks or quids, send them to the family in need back in Poland. You are a very idealistic person and we should pay tribute to you for that. |
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Jun 29, 2007 12:56:23 GMT -7
In contrast to the Poles the Dutch weren't against the voting system, because the Dutch voting power is minimal anyway! I guessed so but wasn`t sure. Yes, they acted like complete amateurs. It is yet another fault of Kaczynskis to take such ineffective Foreign Minister. She is critisized from all sides for her lack of diplomatic skills. She had been a university teacher before her current post. Compared to clever Russian or German diplomats and Foreign Ministers, Polish ones are like kids from kindergarten. Sad but true. They say Kaczynski brothers intentionally keep such lousy diplomats because it is easier for them to pull all the strings. |
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Post by bescheid on Jun 29, 2007 13:23:09 GMT -7
This peculiar feature is shared by many Poles hahahaha including me. I am sure he won`t get another chance. His popularity level is extremely low. Yes, it is hopeless. PS. Once I asked you a question but you might have missed it. I want to know why other smaller countries like Holland, for example, didn`t support Kaczynskis and their proposition? Didn`t the Dutch want more voting power? Pawian, The Dutch did not support the Kaczynskis, because the Dutch objection to the European proposals of the German chairmanship initailly where more against the elements which supported the old constitution and more European central influence. In contrast to the Poles the Dutch weren't against the voting system, because the Dutch voting power is minimal anyway! There was not that mutch fuss about the voting system in Holland as in Poland. The criticism of the Polish stance in the negociations was the way in which the Polish negociators were behaving. To be frank I don't have enough information and knowledge to be able to judge on that. I don't always trust even my own Dutch TV news, my Dutch newspaper and radio, because I want to make my own judgement. Therfor I am also dependant on my "Polish sources", Wojtek (Bescheid), you, the BBC, German and Belgian television and other sources. PS. Once I asked you a question but you might have missed it. I want to know why other smaller countries like Holland, for example, didn`t support Kaczynskis and their proposition? Didn`t the Dutch want more voting power? That is all I can say! Pieter Pieter You give not enough of credit to your wonderful world, this for sure! For I as a person, have been so negligent with speaking out. So, the time is now to say so: Your country is a very beautiful and wonderful nation, with a richness that is beyond speaking, yes... Of my many visits, I have always felt comfortable with out realizing other then the Hollander speaking. My primary regret is of never the opportunity to have visited that of you great port city of {Rotterdam}. Many time in past though, in Amsterdam. Actually not so long past... A small story of though whilst a day in Amsterdam: Whilst on board one of our Polizeiboote {Cuxhaven} we motored through the see rout of Waddenzee and then Ijsselmeer. The ship master announced we would be in dock at Amsterdam for the day as an official visitor. We were allowed to off board only in the slip area. As I was without my papers, and dressed only in the rough woolen crew uniform/deak clothing {not the typical Holiday clothing} we made the rounds of local beer seeman beer stays. Even smelling of diesel/salt sea air, we were treated very very well. As a let down in attempting to put on airs, I used my best Niedersächsisch speaking and was caught by the lady of the house. Her German was very clear. And as such, I was put in my place in a vary nice manner. We all enjoyed a grand time and good exchange of hearty laughter. What I am attempting to say is this: As a person, I have grown through time and experience, to appreciate and like your Dutch people and land. For you are a good people. Within the political climate as most working people hold only a small interest in. The Nederlands has been through time, have held a calming over the many political storms that have been over our lands. For this is no accident, it is the calm manner of approach the Dutch have displayed with their views and sensible approach to the various issues between our two countries. Because of your conservative nature, I felt this should be brought out to light as a display to your credit. Charles |
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Post by pieter on Jun 29, 2007 14:57:50 GMT -7
I don't like that guesture towards the country you come from, which gave you your education, your upbringing and etc. You are a very romantic person, probably more romantic than an average Pole. You stick to certain ideals and that`s great. However, these young people are less romantic. It doesn`t mean worse love of their country. Most of them declare that when the situation improves, they will gladly come back and work in Poland. For the time being, they see better prospects abroad. They will never forget their Polish education and upbringing. After spending some time abroad, they will appreciate it a lot, I know it because I experienced the same feeling. They will use what they learnt in Poland wherever they are. What is good is the fact they are getting experience and polish the languages. It will be invaluable after they come back to Poland and start looking for jobs here. Poles have always been migrant birds. We are the nation of travelers, didn` t you hear about Jan z Kolna? hahahahahaha en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_of_KolnoNo, they will not leave anything. Polish roots are stamped into their minds and bodies, can`t be removed without mental damage, most of them will always remain Polish. Oh, no, it is not so bad. Just going abroad to learn about foreign countries, you know, Travel broadens mind. And earn a few bucks or quids, send them to the family in need back in Poland. You are a very idealistic person and we should pay tribute to you for that. Pawian, Thanks for your ever pleasent ironic and educational answers. I have to say I like your serious replies, your lack of sentimentalism, and (again) the ironical humor in your replies. It is always important to be able to put things into perspective, and you are one of those Poles that look very critically towards the idealisation (overly romantic image) of the Polish past and the Polish people by many Poles and non-Poles, and in the same time look critical towards foreign governments and people. That's good, and that is one of the things I like about my country and some of my compatriots too! To be able to be selfcritical without loosing your identity or connection to the place you come from. In the same time I know that there are people who will not like you for that and mistake you for a Cynical person. But in my view a cynical person will not go indepth in reaction towards the "other". A cynical will destroy the conversation and move on to the next target! Now I will react on your replies: I really hope so Pawian, because a pragmatic or realistic Pole who can put things into perspective, analyse things rationally and manage to organise their lives in Poland or temporary abroad is better than an overly romantic nostalgic Pole who is stuck into the past or a reactionairy form of lethargic Nationalism or Catholicism and will stay in Poland in a state of apathy. Leading a poor, decent and loyal life to Church and fatherland, but achieving nothing in life. I can stick to certain ideals because it are theoretic formations in my head which might have nothing to do with Polish reality, and maybe everything with my own Utopic or Messianic visions which will probably never reach Poland or the Polish diaspora. (maybe I write about it every now and than out of a personal need to express them.) Many Poles have better perspectives abroad than in Poland right now. I agree on that with you. And I don't judge on that, because Europe gives them that opportunity, and in my Cosmopolitan view of life every person has the liberty to do what improves her or his life. So if they want to go abroad they are free to do so. I don't see them as traitors at all! Believe me, I believe you on this! I simply agree with you! Very true indeed! You are right again! Actually Poles and Dutch have more in common than one might think. Both are travellers, Globetrotters! Interesting.... Yes, that's a good thing! I don't know about that, I am very sceptical about many idealists of the 20th century, many of those idealistic intellectuals of left and right caused great harm supporting wrong regimes. The danger of my idealism is that I have influence via the Dutch press (radio), a political network and foundation! I am irritated and frustrated about manny things and that must be lead into the right chanals! I am putting all my effort to have limited influence inside the Netherlands, and do not have the impression that I will be able to have any influence abroad, because the world and language barriers are to big for that! I agree with you that we should pay tribute to responsable and empirical idealism, but in the same time we should look at it with a critical mind and look for inconsequences in it always! Pieter |
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Post by pieter on Jun 29, 2007 15:10:20 GMT -7
In contrast to the Poles the Dutch weren't against the voting system, because the Dutch voting power is minimal anyway! I guessed so but wasn`t sure. Yes, they acted like complete amateurs. It is yet another fault of Kaczynskis to take such ineffective Foreign Minister. She is critisized from all sides for her lack of diplomatic skills. She had been a university teacher before her current post. Compared to clever Russian or German diplomats and Foreign Ministers, Polish ones are like kids from kindergarten. Sad but true. They say Kaczynski brothers intentionally keep such lousy diplomats because it is easier for them to pull all the strings. Pawian, That's a shame for Poland, but maybe also a lesson, vote for a better alternative next time. Weak Polish rulers and governments did Poland great harm in the past. But I am hopeful for the future, the will be a better government than this one and the previous one(s) one day! A new generation of realists is emerging! One day they will remove the "Old guard". Pieter |
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Post by pieter on Jun 29, 2007 15:23:30 GMT -7
Pawian, The Dutch did not support the Kaczynskis, because the Dutch objection to the European proposals of the German chairmanship initailly where more against the elements which supported the old constitution and more European central influence. In contrast to the Poles the Dutch weren't against the voting system, because the Dutch voting power is minimal anyway! There was not that mutch fuss about the voting system in Holland as in Poland. The criticism of the Polish stance in the negociations was the way in which the Polish negociators were behaving. To be frank I don't have enough information and knowledge to be able to judge on that. I don't always trust even my own Dutch TV news, my Dutch newspaper and radio, because I want to make my own judgement. Therfor I am also dependant on my "Polish sources", Wojtek (Bescheid), you, the BBC, German and Belgian television and other sources. PS. Once I asked you a question but you might have missed it. I want to know why other smaller countries like Holland, for example, didn`t support Kaczynskis and their proposition? Didn`t the Dutch want more voting power? That is all I can say! Pieter Pieter You give not enough of credit to your wonderful world, this for sure! For I as a person, have been so negligent with speaking out. So, the time is now to say so: Your country is a very beautiful and wonderful nation, with a richness that is beyond speaking, yes... Of my many visits, I have always felt comfortable with out realizing other then the Hollander speaking. My primary regret is of never the opportunity to have visited that of you great port city of {Rotterdam}. Many time in past though, in Amsterdam. Actually not so long past... A small story of though whilst a day in Amsterdam: Whilst on board one of our Polizeiboote {Cuxhaven} we motored through the see rout of Waddenzee and then Ijsselmeer. The ship master announced we would be in dock at Amsterdam for the day as an official visitor. We were allowed to off board only in the slip area. As I was without my papers, and dressed only in the rough woolen crew uniform/deak clothing {not the typical Holiday clothing} we made the rounds of local beer seeman beer stays. Even smelling of diesel/salt sea air, we were treated very very well. As a let down in attempting to put on airs, I used my best Niedersächsisch speaking and was caught by the lady of the house. Her German was very clear. And as such, I was put in my place in a vary nice manner. We all enjoyed a grand time and good exchange of hearty laughter. What I am attempting to say is this: As a person, I have grown through time and experience, to appreciate and like your Dutch people and land. For you are a good people. Within the political climate as most working people hold only a small interest in. The Nederlands has been through time, have held a calming over the many political storms that have been over our lands. For this is no accident, it is the calm manner of approach the Dutch have displayed with their views and sensible approach to the various issues between our two countries. Because of your conservative nature, I felt this should be brought out to light as a display to your credit. Charles Charles, Thank you for your kind words for my country and compatriots. I am often very critical of my beautiful, over organised, multi-cultural and sometimes political correct country, because I am worried about it! It is always good to hear that foreigners want to visit it, visit it and enjoyed their time while they visited it! I am very fond of Amsterdam too, because it is a cosmopolitan city, international, but also traditional Dutch and in the same time very progressive (or liberal as you Americans call it). I you want it you will see Rotterdam one day, the once largest harbour in the world and a good competitor of Hamburg and other European ports. Yesterday I was in the wonderful Flemish (Belgian) habrour city of Antwerp, a city I am very fond of too! In enjoyed the Flemish Gothic architecture of the Antwerp cathedral, and the typical atmosphere of a port city! The language bond makes us Dutch feel at home in Flanders! Pieter en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gothic_architectureen.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flanders |
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Oct 23, 2007 11:08:23 GMT -7
Hollister, you can learn Polish by studying the headlines from latest Wprost covers: Nuts Rule!  Idols on High  Rydzyk`s Confession  Who Wasted/Wiped off Lepper?  |
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Oct 23, 2007 11:19:06 GMT -7
What Did The Rolling Stones Give Poles?  PiS and LiS (Self Defence and League of Polish Families)  When will Lepper get lepperised?  Order to get the Prime Minister  |
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
|
Post by Pawian on Oct 23, 2007 11:30:36 GMT -7
Who does Kwaśniewski serve?  The True Women`s Party . It is funny because the original but unknown women from the famous poster were replaced by other, more known: journalists, politicians, Presidents` wives, etc.  Who is Fitted to be a Leader?  The Last Stand/ To the Last Drop of Blood  |
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