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Post by hollister on Oct 21, 2007 4:36:31 GMT -7
if anyone is interested the Beatroot will be blogging Poll results this evening beginning at 20:00 CET - since he blogs in English I am sure his reports will be in English as well.. beatroot.blogspot.com/ |
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Oct 21, 2007 5:19:01 GMT -7
if anyone is interested the Beatroot will be blogging Poll results this evening beginning at 20:00 CET - since he blogs in English I am sure his reports will be in English as well.. beatroot.blogspot.com/Not at 20:00. The elections will last longer because in one city, in the election office, they couldn`t open the safe with ballots. It took them 20 minutes. The results will be revealed at 8.20. I am so relaxed. I don`t know but I believe that a certain party will win. |
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Post by Jaga on Oct 21, 2007 16:21:06 GMT -7
I was watching TVN24. They did not show the election results until 10:55 pm Polish time. PO (Citizens Platform) with Donald Tusk won in a big margin, almost 44 %, PiS - ruling until now was the second with only a bit over 30%.
I have heard Tusk and Komorowski speaking. They are talking about the national reconciliation. They are talking that they realize how much responsibility they would have now. They said that they thank everybody, also these who voted against them and they hope that everybody in Poland will feel at home!
I wish it was true. I wish the bipartizan politics would not split them again.
The elections were delayed since the frequency was much higher than expected and in a couple of places in Warsaw there was not enough forms and they had to get them and this took time.
In London people were waiting in big lines also!
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Post by Jaga on Oct 21, 2007 16:25:45 GMT -7
Two interesting aspects:
again and again people were voting AGAINST ruling party. Since PIS had a power they were just voting against it.
Majority of people who did not vote in the previous elections - were voting for PO.
In the past usually about 40-44% people participated in the elections, this time at least 55%.
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Post by Jaga on Oct 21, 2007 21:29:16 GMT -7
WARSAW, Oct. 22 — Voters appeared to have ousted the prime minister, one half of Poland’s wonder-twin team, in parliamentary elections on Sunday. The challenger, Donald Tusk, declared victory for his pro-business party, Civic Platform. The prime minister, Jaroslaw Kaczynski, conceded defeat as two major exit polls showed his Law and Justice Party trailing Civic Platform by double-digit margins. His brother, Lech, will remain president and retain veto power over the presumptive new government’s legislation. Official results are not expected until Tuesday. They could determine whether Civic Platform achieves an outright majority or, as is more likely, needs to form a coalition with the centrist Polish Peasants Party. Though the results were still unofficial, Mr. Kaczynski congratulated his opponent after what appeared to be a significant defeat. “It was a battle,” Mr. Tusk told supporters gathered here Sunday night. “We won it. But tomorrow we need to get down to work.” Surveys showed that this election had the highest rate of voter participation since the fall of Communism in 1989. Some polling stations ran out of ballots, which kept several open up to three hours later than scheduled. Leaders across Europe were likely to be relieved at the ascension of Civic Platform, a pro-Europe party. Under the Kaczynskis, Poland has earned a reputation as a consensus-breaking troublemaker. On the other hand, the Kaczynskis have been the staunchest of allies of the United States. Mr. Tusk said during the campaign that he would have driven a harder bargain over support of plans to place missile interceptors on Polish soil and that, if elected, he would try to bring home the 900 Polish troops in Iraq. www.nytimes.com/2007/10/22/world/europe/22poland.html?em&ex=1193112000&en=5ba428fb9738dd4f&ei=5087%0A |
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Post by Jaga on Oct 21, 2007 21:36:21 GMT -7
another one: Wired Youth Aim to Sway Poland’s Vote www.nytimes.com/2007/10/21/world/europe/21poland.html?em&ex=1193198400&en=196316e2869574cf&ei=5087%0AWARSAW, Oct. 19 — The text message spread with viral speed between the cellphones of Polish youths. With national parliamentary elections coming up on Sunday, young people had a clear mission: “Steal your grandmother’s ID,” the text jokingly implored.
The message referred to the conventional wisdom here that conservative older women put into office the governing Law and Justice Party and the Kaczynski brothers — the famous twins with the round faces of aging cherubs who are prime minister and president. Without their identity cards, the grandmothers would not be able to vote. If they did not vote, the government could be driven out of office.Teenagers guffawed. The governing party fumed. Prime Minister Jaroslaw Kaczynski warned Poles that those who repeated the message “act against you and also against the Polish nation.” |
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Post by Jaga on Oct 21, 2007 22:18:23 GMT -7
from the same article as before:
Young, Internet-savvy Poles are fighting that lethargy — and the image of their country as populated by angry old villagers rather than the urbane hipsters and flush young businesspeople who can be found in cafes and clubs here in the nation’s booming capital.
Pola Dwurnik, a 28-year-old painter, said she avoided political subjects in her artwork. But after almost none of her friends voted in the previous election, Ms. Dwurnik decided to wage a get-out-the-vote campaign.
Her reasons were serious — she disagreed with the fights the government picked with the European Union and other countries, like Germany — but her approach was not. She created posters in which she plays a series of characters — an aloof intellectual, an unmarried pregnant woman and a hip-hop artist, among others — who urge Poles to vote. She sent the images to about 500 people and, like the text message, they were quickly forwarded and posted on blogs.
“In Poland, politics can be so sad,” Ms. Dwurnik said. “Everybody is so serious about it. I try to make it funny and light.”
She also listed the Web sites of consulates where her friends living overseas could register to vote.
With so many Poles living abroad, in countries where Poland’s image has taken a beating under the Kaczynski government, opponents of the governing party have been hoping for a strong turnout at polling stations in places like Dublin and London to help turn the tide. Candidates like Donald Tusk, the leader of Civic Platform, have made campaign stops in those cities.
On Friday, the national election commission said that 175,150 Poles had registered to vote abroad, more than three times the number registered in 2005. But it is a drop in the bucket compared with the 30.5 million eligible voters in Poland. It is within Poland that the battle to increase participation is being waged.
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Oct 21, 2007 23:57:26 GMT -7
On the other hand, the Kaczynskis have been the staunchest of allies of the United States. Mr. Tusk said during the campaign that he would have driven a harder bargain over support of plans to place missile interceptors on Polish soil and that, if elected, he would try to bring home the 900 Polish troops in Iraq. With the victory of PO, Poland is coming back to Europe where it belongs. Hard to say if Polish American alliance will suffer on the way. |
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Post by hollister on Oct 22, 2007 5:11:04 GMT -7
I agree Pawain - Poland has for too long bowed to current American Administration's wishes. I think it is no surprise that Bush and co. do not have Poland's best interests at heart (I'm not even sure if they have all of America's interests at heart) the visa issue is a prime example of the lack of caring. I hope that Tusk does drive a hard bargain - it would be good for Poland and for the US as well. If the US learns the art of cooperation on the world stage it may better serve us all as not only citizens of our respective county but as citizens of the world. I am adding this news reports from Polskie Radio this morning as it tangentially impacts the above discussion. "Law and Justice gets 67% of votes among U.S. Polish minority 22.10.2007 Polish citizens voted in the Polish elections at diplomatic centers all over the world. In the US, the conservative Law and Justice scored an outstanding victory - two thirds of voters supported the current government. Civic Platform, which won in Poland, got only 28% of votes among the Polish minority in the United States. No other party would make it to the parliament according to the results of Polish parliamentary elections in the US. The leftist coalition of Left and Democrats, third in the country, won only 3.5% of votes in America. The turnout was very high. 27 thousand people voted, which is over five times more than in the previous elections in 2005. " This is something that puzzles me about the Polish community I have observed here in Florida. In general the people are extremely proud Poles and I have no doubt that they love Poland - but they are bound in a Poland that does not exist any longer! They celebrate the Poland that existed when they fled Poland for the United States - not the Poland that is emerging today. As the Ducks saw communists under every rock and around every corner - these Pole still believe that Poland is full of socialists that are out to get them. Every Army Day and Constitution Day they re-enact the Uprising(s) but stop there no Walesa, no Solidarity - why? My question - what do these people gain by imagining a Poland that is still under Socialist influence not the Poland that is emerging? I keep finding stuff to add  While not a quote from the US of A it is from a member of the PiS party "Warszawa to ho?ota. Prawdziwej Warszawy ju? nie ma. Zgin??a w Katyniu i Charkowie - - Tutaj jest warszawka, która nie potrafi nas doceni?" Pawain, see how close I get .. Warsaw is full of trash. The real Warsaw died at Katy? and Charków. This Warsaw who can respect it? |
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Oct 22, 2007 12:24:33 GMT -7
I agree Pawain - Poland has for too long bowed to current American Administration's wishes. I think it is no surprise that Bush and co. do not have Poland's best interests at heart (I'm not even sure if they have all of America's interests at heart) the visa issue is a prime example of the lack of caring. Hmm, abolishing visas would be a nice gesture but... we can`t forget that it is Poles themselves who provoked such a rule. SO, I wouldn`t like Americans to close an eye to law breaking just because law breakers are Poles who love America. Polish sentiment to America isn`t enough for American lawmakers and that`s all right with me. Yes, I wonder how he is going to deal with the USA. He will have to fulfill his campaign promises about the withdrawal of Polish troops from Iraq. Sad but true. Today our fellow teacher told us how her America-settled brother ordered her to vote: Vote for PiS, vote for PiS!!, he cried into the receiver. She rebuked him for saying such nonsense, adding that he doesn`t realise the real situation in Poland. hahahahaha it is so natural, American Poles have always been strongly anticommunist. I understand it clearly. Those Poles think they are great patriots when they choose PiS. The truth is they got deceived by Kaczyńskis` aura of love for Poland and their conspicuous patriotism. The fact is that it is all humbug. Jarosław Kaczyński doesn`t even know the words of the Polish anthem, I will post a film about it in Humour section. They live under a certain illusion which comforts their ego. They are happy to be in the USA where they achieved a success and prefer to see Poland as a country still experiencing problems which made them leave for the USA long ago. Thus they feel their departure was justified. Besides, they still believe that they are able to influence the situation and, by voting for PiS, even help those poor Poles in Poland. Yes, it is typical of PiS to debase all those who dare to disagree with them. I can understand them, it is natural for somebody to dislike disagreement, even I am afflicted with this ailment from time to time. But a reasonable person is always able to overcome this nasty feeling and cooperate even with critics. PiS and Kaczyński brothers are not able to forget and cooperate and that`s the biggest problem. |
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Pawian
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Post by Pawian on Oct 22, 2007 12:34:11 GMT -7
While not a quote from the US of A it is from a member of the PiS party "Warszawa to ho?ota. Prawdziwej Warszawy ju? nie ma. Zgin??a w Katyniu i Charkowie - - Tutaj jest warszawka, która nie potrafi nas doceni?" Pawain, see how close I get .. Warsaw is full of trash. The real Warsaw died at Katyn and Charków. This Warsaw who can respect it? - I would use t he rabble instead of trash. The real Warsaw died at Katyn and Charków - it`s OK. This Warsaw who can respect it? - I am sorry, we must change it into: Here is Warsawka (fox, smoothie Warsaw) which is not able to appreciate us. |
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Post by Jaga on Oct 22, 2007 13:10:04 GMT -7
I was worried that Poles from the US would vote this way they did. Even in Afghanistan PO won! I think there is a generational difference. There is not that many young people here. People also do not understand Polish reality. Just like Holly said, they think that they are great patriots by voting for twins.
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Post by ludikundera on Oct 22, 2007 20:41:08 GMT -7
I'm mostly surprised at how much support LiD got. Are Polish people drunk... or merely suffering from a tropical disease?  Seriously, though, it will be interesting to see how Tusk handles things. I hope the new government drives a hard bargain with both the Americans and EU, switches voting to first-past-the-post, and privatizes the hell out of everything. If those promises are kept, I'll be happy. In my best dreams, I also see the weird Kaczynski beating Kwasniewski to death with some kind of blunt object, as well. Maybe a temporary insanity induced by the election loss? But, like I said, this is only a dream, a best case scenario. By the way, how about that feminist party... ;D |
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Post by Jaga on Oct 22, 2007 20:58:48 GMT -7
By the way, how about that feminist party... ;D they just got less than 0.5% of the votes....at least they are known. Anyways, they are not in worst position that the Polish Families league. |
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Post by husssar on Oct 23, 2007 5:20:44 GMT -7
I think most foreigners give favour to PIS because alot of them delt with the fist of communism. Most of them, my father included, really like this idea of revenge against ex-communists in public positions and the power given to anti-corruption agencies.
But I guess that we dont know the situation in Poland.
I congratulate Tusk, I like the idea of him being pro-business, professional and friendly to Europe.
I just hope that he could stand up for Poland's interests and I really hope that he doesn't sell our counrty out to foreigners.
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