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Post by hollister on Dec 15, 2005 9:50:36 GMT -7
Bob is correct - the USA is a constitutional republic - If the USA was a true/pure democracy the last two presidental elections would have put Gore or Kerry in the White House. In a country of this size pure democracy is just unworkable - voters would have to vote on EVERY SINGLE bill, act or law - that is why the USA moved to a representational form of government were the indiviudal voters gives up "some" of their voting rights to their elected officials. It is the responsibility of the elected to represent the will of their voters (in the home district) to cast their votes for those they represent.
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Post by bescheid on Dec 15, 2005 9:54:36 GMT -7
Jaga
I understand your position and so very well. As I am non Polish, I would have no say in as much to the Roma children born in Poland.
The entirety of my argument stands with the children, not the actions of the parents, they (parents need and should stand for them selves) But for the Child. If an extra space needs to be made for that child in the social system, of which ever country they are in, which I believe we are only talking about the US. Then let it be so, if an extra buck needs to be required for that child, then I would still stand on this: By all means, make it happen.
That child needs education, and all the support it can get for integration as a useful member of society. Nothing is %100. The situation may be a useless dump of resources that another child could use, but those that are saved as valuable members of that society of which it is a member. The rewords will be a now grown adult, working, fulfilling a need in the work place, a family person. And a very loyal citizen that was given the chance to blossom as a child.
We must remember as people, that the almost entirety of citizens in the US, were immigrants or descendants of immigrants.
Charles
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piwo
Citizen of the World
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Post by piwo on Dec 15, 2005 10:20:38 GMT -7
The term Democracy is like using the term Xerox when referring to making a copy of something. When I grew up, people would say: "Xerox that", which they meant "copy that". Bobs is 100% correct in stating that a true democracy is mob rule, 51% rules no matter what. We are a congregation of states, bound by a Constitution, and 99% cannot over rule the Constitution. It's just a term, and sorry Kai, I didn't know it would strike such a nerve. The term Democracy has been used for so long that people know what is meant, just like "xerox" it, but it's just not the best term to describe our structure, and has nothing to do with any political party.
You are welcome as to the posting of the 1st clause of the 14th Amendment, I’d never understood where the rule or law actually derived its authority, and found it enlightening.
As for your PS Kai, no, you didn’t read it right. I don't see where I provided an opine as to the merit of each, or either. My comment on the 2nd Amendment was in response to the subversions of it through modern day interpretation. Fortunately for those who champion the cause of illegals gaining status, the same methodology isn’t being employed on the 14th, and I don't see where wishing that safeguards against ILLEGAL activity in order to garner its benefit is a condemnation of the 14th amendment. All the Amendments are the same, they are equally legally binding.
On a previous thread, you jumped Bob pretty quick and stated “Bob, Bouncing off topic so quickly leaves the impression you have sour grapes or something distasteful you cannot express.” Perhaps you could ask yourself the same question? You were quick to start the name calling based on post that wished safeguards had been provided against illegal activity. I found it a touch intolerant.
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Bob S
European
Rainbow Bear
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Post by Bob S on Dec 15, 2005 11:07:41 GMT -7
;D Et al in the forum. Going back a little further, Jimmy (jerkoff) Carter would not have been President, because he did not win the majority of votes. ;D
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Post by hollister on Dec 15, 2005 11:16:17 GMT -7
Bob, You are correct Jimmy Carter would not have been President if the USA did go by the majority rules - rule. But I have to say, that as a person I do not agree with the "jerk off" appelation applied to Carter. I find that there is quite a bit to admire in Carter's actions since the Presidency. I find him a flawed human (as we all are) but his service to the peoples of this world and for the poor in the USA, earn him some respect in my opinion. Maybe this thread should be moved to politics?
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Bob S
European
Rainbow Bear
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Post by Bob S on Dec 15, 2005 11:52:34 GMT -7
Bob, You are correct Jimmy Carter would not have been President if the USA did go by the majority rules - rule. But I have to say, that as a person I do not agree with the "jerk off" appelation applied to Carter. I find that there is quite a bit to admire in Carter's actions since the Presidency. I find him a flawed human (as we all are) but his service to the peoples of this world and for the poor in the USA, earn him some respect in my opinion. Maybe this thread should be moved to politics? Holli. I agree with you. This thread should be in the Politics Site because it has gone off course too much. As for the "appelation" it is only my opinion and everyone is free to feel what they want to. ;D
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Post by kaima on Dec 16, 2005 11:12:43 GMT -7
Kai. Constitutional Republic started when this country was formed. Democracy is nothing more than mob rule; 100 people say that we make freedom of speech illegal, 99 people say NO! In a Democracy the 100 people win because they are the "majority". Not all teachers in school are correct, Many of them should go back to grade school and begin learning again. They could start with History, Civics and Government. The primary fault they would have to overcome 1st is the ability to read. OK, I concede. America is not a democracy. Kai
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Post by kaima on Dec 16, 2005 11:14:57 GMT -7
;D Oops, I forgot Comprehend. Those teachers should learn how to read AND comprehend what they read. Yes, so should people on the internet. Kai
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Post by kaima on Dec 16, 2005 11:16:27 GMT -7
Bob is correct - the USA is a constitutional republic - If the USA was a true/pure democracy the last two presidental elections would have put Gore or Kerry in the White House. In a country of this size pure democracy is just unworkable - voters would have to vote on EVERY SINGLE bill, act or law - that is why the USA moved to a representational form of government were the indiviudal voters gives up "some" of their voting rights to their elected officials. It is the responsibility of the elected to represent the will of their voters (in the home district) to cast their votes for those they represent. Again I concede, the USA is not a democracy. Kai PS Last I checked, Bush had 50.3%
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Post by kaima on Dec 16, 2005 11:19:17 GMT -7
The term Democracy is like using the term Xerox when referring to making a copy of something. When I grew up, people would say: "Xerox that", which they meant "copy that". Bobs is 100% correct in stating that a true democracy is mob rule, 51% rules no matter what. We are a congregation of states, bound by a Constitution, and 99% cannot over rule the Constitution. It's just a term, and sorry Kai, I didn't know it would strike such a nerve. The term Democracy has been used for so long that people know what is meant, just like "xerox" it, but it's just not the best term to describe our structure, and has nothing to do with any political party. You are welcome as to the posting of the 1st clause of the 14th Amendment, I?d never understood where the rule or law actually derived its authority, and found it enlightening. As for your PS Kai, no, you didn?t read it right. I don't see where I provided an opine as to the merit of each, or either. My comment on the 2nd Amendment was in response to the subversions of it through modern day interpretation. Fortunately for those who champion the cause of illegals gaining status, the same methodology isn?t being employed on the 14th, and I don't see where wishing that safeguards against ILLEGAL activity in order to garner its benefit is a condemnation of the 14th amendment. All the Amendments are the same, they are equally legally binding. On a previous thread, you jumped Bob pretty quick and stated ?Bob, Bouncing off topic so quickly leaves the impression you have sour grapes or something distasteful you cannot express.? Perhaps you could ask yourself the same question? You were quick to start the name calling based on post that wished safeguards had been provided against illegal activity. I found it a touch intolerant. Yea, looking at titles of countries, very few claim to be democracies, and some of those were the communist countries, or the Congo. So I guess it is good we are not in their company and do not claim to be a democracy in the USA. Kai
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Post by bescheid on Dec 16, 2005 13:01:27 GMT -7
Hello Kai
These days have not been your best of days! I think though, you have been brought to task, and you have been tested, forged in fire and come out as of tempered steel!
You have gone as the wolf, swift as the wind, run with the light of the moon. And, stood up as a man.
You are a gentleman
Charles
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piwo
Citizen of the World
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Posts: 1,189
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Post by piwo on Dec 16, 2005 15:49:43 GMT -7
Perhaps if he would have called you an "ignoramus" for having the audacity to suggest a refined definition to a word you would have a different opinion. I was thinking of another word..........
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Post by bescheid on Dec 16, 2005 17:48:46 GMT -7
Piwo
Well, perhaps you are correct, perhaps I am an ignoramus at that, certainly have not been smart all my life.
Actually, that situation is between your self and Kai. My reason of a post to him for his behalf, was in the manner of composure he maintained.
If it had been you, then I certainly would have done the same in your behalf.
I trust this all makes sense
Charles
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piwo
Citizen of the World
Co Słychać?
Posts: 1,189
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Post by piwo on Dec 16, 2005 21:43:01 GMT -7
Piwo Well, perhaps you are correct, perhaps I am an ignoramus at that, certainly have not been smart all my life. Actually, that situation is between your self and Kai. My reason of a post to him for his behalf, was in the manner of composure he maintained. If it had been you, then I certainly would have done the same in your behalf. I trust this all makes sense Charles Charles, It's nice to know that fellow forum members are looking out for their kindred brothers and sisters, and I appreciate your sense of fair play on my behalf, but will ask you, please don't misrepresent my words. I never suggested you or anyone else was an ignoramus, as you elude. I'll leave that for those who spoil for confrontation. This is a kindler, gentler forum, and I've vowed to the forum moderators to refrain from such behavior.
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Post by kaima on Dec 17, 2005 1:15:22 GMT -7
Bob is correct - the USA is a constitutional republic - If the USA was a true/pure democracy the last two presidental elections would have put Gore or Kerry in the White House. In a country of this size pure democracy is just unworkable - voters would have to vote on EVERY SINGLE bill, act or law - that is why the USA moved to a representational form of government were the indiviudal voters gives up "some" of their voting rights to their elected officials. It is the responsibility of the elected to represent the will of their voters (in the home district) to cast their votes for those they represent. I never disagreed with Bob on the constitutional republic side, I initially declared it is also a democracy. After being corrected, I conceded the point. Now can you help those of us still wondering what we cann all this stuff with ballots that we do int eh USA every two years adn four years? I don't have another word to describe it and need help to get out of this ignoramushood. Oh, and I also suffered under the delusion that democracy did allow the people to rule, as it was somebody's ideal fo freedom or somesuch. I don't think anyone ever mentioned pure democracy, adn inthe US we aren't being accused of too much of pure anything these days. If you can clarify the teminology and the point, letting me know how I can describe that ballot business, I would be thankful. Kai
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