|
|
Post by Jaga on Dec 14, 2005 10:00:13 GMT -7
Should illegal immigrant children be granted citizenship of the country he was born?
A couple of days ago there was a discussion here in American massmedia. For me - this law does not make any sense and it should be changed. It makes actually a life of everybody more difficult - since kids cannot apply for citizenship of your parents until they are 21 and their parents have to wait extra 10 years still (since they were illegal) - what do you think?
|
|
|
|
Post by Jaga on Dec 14, 2005 10:00:52 GMT -7
What do you think about double citizenship issue?
For instance Joe Lieberman who wanted to be a president of the USA is also a citizen of Israel.
|
|
|
|
Post by bescheid on Dec 14, 2005 11:13:37 GMT -7
Jaga
I voted yes. For a special reason of the child. It is my belief that a child has no control of the area that they are brought into the world. The child is subject to, without any manner of defense, the environment around him/her. The child must depend upon with his/her life, upon his/her mother and father,for warmth, protection, and means of life.
If the child is brought into the world by his/her immigrant parents. It should be the choice of nationality to the child at which age is deemed an age of responsibility.
It needs to be a case by case situation though. Even in the case, the parents with full knowledge demonstrated intent, with insuring the child's birth occurred in another country with the intent of automatic citizen ship for the child. Well, this would be accounted for with the child's decision as which he/her, should decide on citizenship.
In the case of dual citizenship though, personally, I do not believe in that.
Charles
|
|
forza
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 514
|
Post by forza on Dec 14, 2005 12:05:03 GMT -7
I like the rule that place of birth determines your citizenship. Even if there are people to abuse it - like for example bearing children to get legal status in US - it still should be kept the way it is. Not long ago Poland has deported about 14 year old with his mother who both were here illegally for about 10 years and exhausted all appeals. The kid didn't speak well the language of the country he was going to....Our bureaucrats had to prove there (for EU to see!) that we are law abiding country worthy of Schengen agreements. That our legal system needs more then following the rules knows everybody who lives here so It was some political show in my opinion.  |
|
|
|
Post by Jaga on Dec 14, 2005 18:52:40 GMT -7
It is surprising to me that both oof you (100%) is for it. These kids are not really homeless, they were born to the people who are citizens of some other countries.
What if Russian families would come to Poland (or better Romanian gipsies) then they would have kids in Poland who would be legal Polish citizens? Will you still accept them? Even if they just came for seasonal job
|
|
nancy
European
Posts: 2,144
|
Post by nancy on Dec 14, 2005 19:57:10 GMT -7
I agree with forza's comments. It is an old story that some people want to have their children born in America so that they would be citizens. I don't think it mattered how long the parents were here, or why they were here.
|
|
piwo
Citizen of the World
Co Słychać?
Posts: 1,189
|
Post by piwo on Dec 14, 2005 20:23:47 GMT -7
I disagree. Illegal is illegal. That's like saying it's OK for the kids of a thief to keep the proceeds of the parents illegal activity. And you wonder why our social security system is in shambles...... We pay for those who have never, their parents have never, and they may never pay a cent into the system. Where's the logic?? Rome collapsed under the same logic, and as our system goes bankrupt, we invite anyone to "beat the system" for 10 minutes and create more Dependants. Legal is legal, illegal is illegal. Why is that wrong?
Clearly a minority here, but getting used to it.
|
|
|
|
Post by kaima on Dec 14, 2005 20:25:28 GMT -7
I understand it goes back to the 14th amendment to the US constitution. So to change it we would have to change the constitution, not just the law.
My grandparents were in the US as legal immigrants when my father was born. His parents saved the money they came for and returned to Slovakia (Hungary then) to buy the dream farm. My dad did not return to the US until he was 16, and he spoke three or five languages but no English. It is said the rest is history.
Now I do have some questions in my mind about how many social and other benefits, even schooling, should be granted to illegals. I have no trouble with legals.
Primarily I see the problem with cowardly politicians in Washington afraid to honestly face the problem and make decisions!
Kai
Kai
|
|
piwo
Citizen of the World
Co Słychać?
Posts: 1,189
|
Post by piwo on Dec 14, 2005 20:57:50 GMT -7
This is the clause of the 14th amendment that Kai refers: 14th. Amendment
to the U.S. Constitution
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
As a Constitutional Republic (as opposed to a democracy, which we are not) the rule of law will apply. Too Bad the writers of the 14th amendment didn't take into account the waves of illegals that use that clause to legally create additional US Dependants through illegal means. If it were the 2nd amendment, they would merely say it depends on how you interpret it, but law is law, so all we have is opinion. I think it's BS, but, law is law. I am not for opening our Constitution for change. You see, if you open up the Constitution by calling a Convention, ALL articles of the constitution become fair game. All recognized freedoms and rights are "up for grabs". I'm not for that.
|
|
nancy
European
Posts: 2,144
|
Post by nancy on Dec 14, 2005 21:35:46 GMT -7
Now I do have some questions in my mind about how many social and other benefits, even schooling, should be granted to illegals. I have no trouble with legals. I have the same problem. Apparently our govenor wants to give illegals access to the state university system at low rates - lower than offered to citizen students from out of state. That's just nuts! (Of course, he is a Republican Governor in a Democrat state, so he will lose.) |
|
forza
Cosmopolitan
Posts: 514
|
Post by forza on Dec 14, 2005 23:09:21 GMT -7
It is surprising to me that both oof you (100%) is for it. These kids are not really homeless, they were born to the people who are citizens of some other countries. What if Russian families would come to Poland (or better Romanian gipsies) then they would have kids in Poland who would be legal Polish citizens? Will you still accept them? Even if they just came for seasonal job If they stayed in Poland, knew the language, were educated, integrated etc etc I wouldn't have problems with that. |
|
Bob S
European
Rainbow Bear
Posts: 2,052
|
Post by Bob S on Dec 14, 2005 23:28:44 GMT -7
 This time I am at a loss and have difficulty with the answer. I heard about this situation on the news and the parents were seeking medical attention for a terminally sick child. I have several questions that have to be answered: 1. Who is going to pay for the treatment because it is very expensive? 2. Am I to assume that there are no American children that need costly medical attention? 3. Why didn't they go to Canada and become illegal there and use the vaunted socialised medical system? Better yet, why didn't they go to Cuba as illegals and use the vaunted Cuban medical system? At least there would be no language barrier. The fault does not lay with the child and I feel sympathy for him and the situation.
|
|
|
|
Post by kaima on Dec 15, 2005 0:37:38 GMT -7
As a Constitutional Republic (as opposed to a democracy, which we are not) the rule of law will apply. Too Bad the writers of the 14th amendment didn't take into account the waves of illegals that use that clause to legally create additional US Dependants through illegal means. Bullshit. I was born and raised in this democracy. When did this "not a democracy" crap start, when ignoramuses associate democratic with Democrat? That doesn't match up with anything I learned in school! Kai PS, thanks for posting the 14th ammendment. Do I read it right that you don't rank the 14th with the 2nd? I expect that all ammendments are equal! |
|
Bob S
European
Rainbow Bear
Posts: 2,052
|
Post by Bob S on Dec 15, 2005 8:57:12 GMT -7
 Kai. Constitutional Republic started when this country was formed. Democracy is nothing more than mob rule; 100 people say that we make freedom of speech illegal, 99 people say NO! In a Democracy the 100 people win because they are the "majority". Not all teachers in school are correct, Many of them should go back to grade school and begin learning again. They could start with History, Civics and Government. The primary fault they would have to overcome 1st is the ability to read. 
|
|
Bob S
European
Rainbow Bear
Posts: 2,052
|
Post by Bob S on Dec 15, 2005 9:06:20 GMT -7
;D Oops, I forgot Comprehend. Those teachers should learn how to read AND comprehend what they read. |
|
This time I am at a loss and have difficulty with the answer. I heard about this situation on the news and the parents were seeking medical attention for a terminally sick child. I have several questions that have to be answered:
Kai. Constitutional Republic started when this country was formed. Democracy is nothing more than mob rule; 100 people say that we make freedom of speech illegal, 99 people say NO! In a Democracy the 100 people win because they are the "majority". Not all teachers in school are correct, Many of them should go back to grade school and begin learning again. They could start with History, Civics and Government. The primary fault they would have to overcome 1st is the ability to read. 