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Post by Jaga on Jan 6, 2006 10:22:04 GMT -7
Recently the American mass media focus a lot on a tragedy of 12 miners - and one who survived. This is really a tragedy, also in Poland we had several mining accidents, it is always hard to hear about the loss of human lives
On the other hand just today and yesterday the information about a death of 5 later updated as 8 American soldiers in Iraq just slipped through the mass media as like.... nothing really happen. As like the life of these soldiers was not important because - either they are jsut destined to die or they are so far.... not even mention the life of other 140 Iraqis...
I do not understand this at all - anybody would explain me why the values of human life are so different?
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Post by hollister on Jan 6, 2006 10:41:03 GMT -7
Jaga and all, Thank you! My son was or soon will be "boots on the ground" in Iraq for an expected 365 days. I have mourned each and every death in Iraq before but I will do so now with a new poignancy. How can I pray that my son will be safe if it means the loss of another mother's son?
Hollister
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Post by jimpres on Jan 6, 2006 10:41:48 GMT -7
The value of human life is the same. It's the media and their agenda.
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Post by suzanne on Jan 6, 2006 10:54:08 GMT -7
I guess it's because the public would find the story of the miners to be dramatic in ways that deaths of soliders nowadays is not, since the public is so used to hearing about soldiers (and civilians too) dying in Iraq.
Things like deaths always get "prioritized" by the media, for lack of a better word.
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Post by justjohn on Jan 6, 2006 13:47:26 GMT -7
Jaga and all, Thank you! My son was or soon will be "boots on the ground" in Iraq for an expected 365 days. I have mourned each and every death in Iraq before but I will do so now with a new poignancy. How can I pray that my son will be safe if it means the loss of another mother's son? Hollister My prayers are with you and your son. I hope for his speedy return. I am also proud that he is serving his country.
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Post by Jaga on Jan 6, 2006 13:48:38 GMT -7
Jaga and all, Thank you! My son was or soon will be "boots on the ground" in Iraq for an expected 365 days. I have mourned each and every death in Iraq before but I will do so now with a new poignancy. How can I pray that my son will be safe if it means the loss of another mother's son? Hollister Holly, I will pray for your son and please update us about him as frequently as you can. I feel for these parents and somehow - the information about these guys - some of them are hurt or in the coma after the accidents just like this one miner! - and we do not know anything about them because.... they are in Iraq or because it is not politically correct to talk about it. By the way, according to the last update 11 soldiers died in Iraq during the last 2 days, no talk about it at all
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piwo
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Post by piwo on Jan 6, 2006 14:01:34 GMT -7
Well, of course it's media sensationalizing the events, but it's also a story of hope. HOPE that these 12 victims of a tragic accident will be saved. People want to be uplifted, and so it moves them. It gives them hope that a small miracle will happen. When it doesn't, it's devastating.
I'm not sure I really understand your point since Poland is not any different then here. Is every traffic accident a national media event? Every death treated like a national event. Of course it's not. Yet events have unfolded in Poland where a single life has gathered their national attention, just like here. Every death affects a circle of people, some circles are larger then others, and some are given more attention then others. It is true everywhere. How could we live if we rode the emotional roller coaster for every death in this country, every traffic accident, every fire death and so on. We'd either cease to have human feelings, or we'd all be nut cases.
As for Iraq, in a country where fuel and supplies must be moved hundreds of miles to units spread out, the inevitability of cleverly disguised munitions causing deaths is unavoidable. Those deaths are painful, and I wish they would end soon. I get a knot in my stomach when I hear of each one.
Could any country at war have ever survived if every story was told of every soldier killed to the entire nation? Thank God we (meaning all the allies) didn't do this in the 2nd world war, cause all of europe would be speaking German and Adolf would be the most popular name in Europe
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piwo
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Post by piwo on Jan 6, 2006 16:26:38 GMT -7
Dear Hollie My last guest left the house on Thanksgiving (actually, the next day) at 3:00 AM. First Thanksgiving Al had at home in 12 years, and training with a special forces group that will be in and out of Iraq in the next few weeks. My stomach is in knots, I cannot even begin to understand your level of feelings. God's grace to them all....
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Post by Jaga on Jan 6, 2006 17:22:36 GMT -7
But there were 11 soldiers dead in that day.... I do not understand exactly your argument - if death is so relative we should not even talk about these 12 miners because their death is insignificant among the deaths of thousands this day? The rule is - you talk about multiple deaths more than about one death... just like what they did about thisfirsl in Aruba. They were talking about it for months in several mass media, mainly Fox.
So, do you believe that for the sake of war we shoudl not talk about its dead soldiers because somehow it affects the morale? What about the families?
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Post by Jaga on Jan 6, 2006 17:32:10 GMT -7
Piwo and others, what are the standard rules of talking about some deaths and not talking about the others?
Give me some examples:
30 thousands Iraqis dead in the course of the recent war (according to the pres. Bush) - do not talk about it because it is just a sideeffect of the war
Above 3 thousands of 9-11 World Trade Center explosions - talk about it very much because this was done by terrorists on American soil
over 2 thousands of American soldiers dead in Iraq - do not talk about it because : - it lowers the morale of the troops -it is insignificant number compared to the Vietnam war - it gives arguments to liberals, democrats and pacifists
The highest number of people up to 40 years old in the USA die in car traffic accidents (more than on any other disease in these age groups)- do not talk about it since these are local tragedies, everybody needs to drive a car - just overestimate the fear of terroristic attacks and airplane catastrophes.
WHAT IS REALITY AND WHAT IS JUST OVERBLOWN BY MASS MEDIA AND GOVERNMENTS?!?
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piwo
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Post by piwo on Jan 6, 2006 18:13:19 GMT -7
And it is I who can not understand your point at all. I have no argument, I merely try to answer your question with an opinion. I said that the story of the miners was that of a story of HOPE: the entire nation pulled together over the story of 12 people, accidentally trapped and having little chance for survival, and HOPING that they could survive. Had the story been " an explosion killed 12 miners today", the response would not have been like it was. It would have reported simply that 12 miners died in an explosion today. Just like a report that 11 soldiers were killed today in an ambush, in action, or whatever. There is no HOPE there: only resignation that something bad has happened. You were probably not here when baby Jessica fell down the well and was rescued after several days. This entire nation was on the edge of their seats and my wife and I cried, yes, cried when they pulled her out of the well , ALIVE! It was a miracle, and I still can still remember the footage of them pulling her from the well, and running to the ambulance. Perhaps this is an American phenomena: if so, so be it.
What I don't understand is why it bothers you so? That a nation, faced with many distractions, for a brief moment pulls for someone, or a group of people, who are fighting the odds for survival. You may live here, but you don't understand America at all.
As for the Aruba thing, what is there not to get there. People are murdered, young girls are preyed upon every day. When it appears that a government is covering up, or engaged in misinformation, media goes nuts. I'm sure you felt that Nixon was being unjustly persecuted when that story started to unravel, right? HELL NO YOU Didn't. And the same thing in Aruba. Rightly or wrongly, when things aren't handled well from the start, the sharks begin to gather. Same happened to Nixon, Gary Hart and Bubba Clinton, and New Gingrich. The story in Aruba was the same: things didn't add up, and every news person wants to be the one to "drive the nail home".
In the cities that these soldiers lived, their stories are being told. When someone from our area dies in this war, there story is told on the news, and for days. And there is nothing wrong with telling their stories, but how will you do so on a national basis, and talk about anything else in the 30 minutes that the news has? In WWll, thousands died in a single hour. Were there stories all told, to the exclusion of every other event of the day?
So we don't understand each other, we're either from different cultures, or political dislikes are too strong to step away from. Life goes on.
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piwo
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Post by piwo on Jan 6, 2006 18:27:19 GMT -7
Piwo and others, what are the standard rules of talking about some deaths and not talking about the others? Give me some examples: 30 thousands Iraqis dead in the course of the recent war (according to the pres. Bush) - do not talk about it because it is just a sideeffect of the war
Above 3 thousands of 9-11 World Trade Center explosions - talk about it very much because this was done by terrorists on American soil
over 2 thousands of American soldiers dead in Iraq - do not talk about it because : - it lowers the morale of the troops -it is insignificant number compared to the Vietnam war - it gives arguments to liberals, democrats and pacifists
The highest number of people up to 40 years old in the USA die in car traffic accidents (more than on any other disease in these age groups)- do not talk about it since these are local tragedies, everybody needs to drive a car - just overestimate the fear of terroristic attacks and airplane catastrophes.
WHAT IS REALITY AND WHAT IS JUST OVERBLOWN BY MASS MEDIA AND GOVERNMENTS?!? What are you looking for Jaga? Things in this country interest us more then other countries. Is that hard to understand? Comments ramble so that I can't even begin to sort them out. I can't tell you what is reported and why. The US media is so far left wing (and save your breath, every exit poll that ever measured their voting records has the media 70-80% Democratic party), yet now you accuse them of somehow being sympathetic to Bush? It's the media doing what they do., whatever sells. I suppose if we were state run news, like you grew up with, it would be better. So please, pretty please, tell me what should be reported and how in the land of Jaga. If you were Queen, what warrents media coverage, and what doesn't? You know, I can't stand the US media for their bias, and I've got to defend their practices to someone who grew up behind the iron curtain getting "official news".... Life's funny.....
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Post by jimpres on Jan 6, 2006 18:33:48 GMT -7
Piwo is absolutely correct. The media does what it does for sales and the leftists. They want the US to be a socialist state. The ACLU has been pushing this agenda for years. The ACLU is responsible for many court decisions that are leading to a leftist state.
Jim
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Post by Jaga on Jan 6, 2006 21:23:01 GMT -7
+++ I said that the story of the miners was that of a story of HOPE: the entire nation pulled together over the story of 12 people, accidentally trapped and having little chance for survival, and HOPING that they could survive. +++
yes, it was a story of hope when they were still trapped and I felt sorry for their families. My grandfather was a miner also, my other grandfather was a mining engineer. But - the mass media talk still about it - which is OK but then - they somehow ignore the deaths of 11 soldiers in Iraq during the last 2 days completely.
+++Things in this country interest us more then other countries+++
This is exactly the truth. The war in Iraq is too far from home so that it looks almost unreal. If the World Trade Center is bombed - this matters but if the city of Falluhaj is basically ruined in 90% in the course of the Bush war - it is not important or blame terrorists.
***The media does what it does for sales and the leftists***
The media are for sale but not for the leftists. Give me example why it is for leftists? Nobody was so pounded in the media like Clinton. Was the exaggerated Clinton story for the leftists? So called left media (CNN - you probably mean) are much less opinionated than right wing media.
My problem with the news media- is just pulling out some information as news (like this Aruba story talked for months even after Katrina) and completely omitting real news from all around the world
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forza
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Post by forza on Jan 7, 2006 1:46:55 GMT -7
News is entertainment. That might be unfortunate but is true. When you accept it there is no need to get irritated.
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