Double standard in approach to the world

[Jaga]

There are not many news about what is going on in the Middle East with Israel attacking its neighbors. The FoxNews was suggesting that this is other way around and was questioning Syria.... so maybe attacked sites are in really attacking

we talk so much about the threat from North Korea or Iran but when Israel is overreacting this does not really makes news

what is going on here?

[hollister]

Jaga,

You are correct.
I am so afraid that Iran is going to see this as an opportunity to do something stupid.

I wish I had something insightful to post - but I don't. All I can say is that I am very nervous about these developments.

I don't know about you - but when I watch a scary movie I often watch from behind the sofa or around the corner peeking into the front room every once in awhile (when the music seems to indicate the monsters are no longer eating people or some such activity).

What does this have to do with the latest troubles in the Middle East?
Not much except that I fear I may have to start watching the news the same way.

I am afraid that there are people who are not above manipulating events to bring on Armageddon (as they understand it).

[Bob S]

Jaga I don't think Isreal is over reacting, I think they are just responding to a threat and attack. Isreal cannot bomb those Moslems back to the stone-age because they are already there. The only response that those terrorists understand is a show of force.

[hollister]

wb4rff said:

Isreal cannot bomb those Moslems back to the stone-age because they are already there. The only response that those terrorists understand is a show of force.

Whoa!
What do you mean by "those Moslems"?
Not everyone in Lebanon is Muslim - there is a large population of Christians there.

After our (the USA's) Shock and Awe campaign - I am not seeing much in the way of "understanding" in Iraq.

[Bob S]

hollister said:

wb4rff said:

Isreal cannot bomb those Moslems back to the stone-age because they are already there. The only response that those terrorists understand is a show of force.

Whoa!
What do you mean by "those Moslems"?
Not everyone in Lebanon is Muslim - there is a large population

of Christians there.

After our (the USA's) Shock and Awe campaign - I am not seeing much in the way of "understanding" in Iraq.

And all the Germans were not Nazis.

[Jaga]

Bob,

there is no country that does have a right to start a war or to attack another country without being attacked and this is exactly what Israel is doing... and America gives them free ride.

They did preventive bombing in the neighboring countries. Would you love to have a neighbor that is over-reacting like that?

[Bob S]

;D LOL Jaga. I don't want to, nor will I make an issue of this. In answer to your question: I would't mind my neighbor taking action as long as it was against the bad guys. So that is my final answer on this subject. I have been following the news all day long and it looks like there may be a few bleak days ahead, in that part of the world. Lets all pray for the best outcome in all of this.

[Jaga]

Bob,

I just do not understand why Israel can attack neighboring countries, kill about 50 civilians (among them two families with many children), arrest the government of Palestine..... just because two Israeli soldiers were kidnapped.

The EU thinks that the disproportionate force was used by Israel.

If any other country (besides the US, Israel and Poland ) attacked another country because two of their soldiers were kidnapped - would anybody dare to support it? I do not think so.

[pieter]

I agree with Bob and Hollister, because Israel was attacked by Hezbollah on it's own territory, Katusha rockets were fired on Northern Israel regulary, and the Israeli's were really fed up with this, and reacted in the way Israeli's, Americans and
Russians react in such situations, eye for an eye tooth a for a tooth.
The Israeli doctrine is that always in the case of threat, the conflict/war will be fought on foreign soil, because Israel is to
small to bare a war on it's own soil. The fact is that the Israeli's are very tough people, who experianced many wars, terrorism,
attacks on their civilians (at home and abroad), who are formed parly by their military training (the army is part of the Israeli
identity, because nearly every boy and girls will spend time in it). A lot of Israeli politicians and ministers had a carreer in the Israeli army (a lot of Generals and ministers of defense were generals). Fact is that the present leaders have no roots in the Military hierarchy, Omert and Peretz are "civilian" leaders. European journalists and analysts say that that fact may say something about the fierce military response of the Israeli's on the Lebanese Shia militants in Southern-Lebanon and the rest of the country. The Commentators said that Political leaders with roots in the army would have reacted with more restraint and
would have waged their concentrated military force on Hezbollah targets only.

And Hollister, yes you have the Maronite christians (Lebanese Forces; www.lebaneseforces.com/ ), Armenian christians and Druze (Walli Yumblat) and other minorities.

[pieter]

A message from a lebanese citizen:

Hezbollah, Syria and Iran, stop lying !!!

Yes indeed, why so much hypocrisy, brain washed tunnel vision and blindness by the Arab and Muslim world?

Lest we are obliged to print it in Bold, screaming and Capital fonts for all and sundry to understand, it is perfectly clear that this latest conflict was definitely started by Hezbollah.

Hezbollah is the one that entered Israeli territory, it is the one that killed 8 Israeli soldiers and it is the one that kidnapped 2 Israeli soldiers, and all this, well inside Israeli territory. By doing what it did is what gave the state of Israel ample reason to respond and roll back time for all Lebanon by plunging us all into another war which in truth no one really wants.

Since Israel left Lebanon in 2000, it has never started any conflict with us no matter how limited it may have been, it was always Hezbollah and Hezbollah that always found a million reasons (best known to it) to cause problems, real and serious problems. Sure enough Israel had and still has enough reasons to fly over our territory because Israel is no fool and certainly no stooge of anyone’s imbecility, Israel knows well that a terrorist organization that is supported by the axis of evil Syria and Iran are holding an entire government and nation will stop at nothing, so who can really blame Israel for pre-empting any attempt by the axis of evil and their local stooges in Lebanon.

Lest people have forgotten, it was Hezbollah that quickly disillusioned the Lebanese from their euphoria after the Syrian withdrawal from Lebanon, it was Hezbollah that found every reason to “thank Syria”, and it is still Hezbollah that is breaking apart an entire nation and destroying the hopes of just over a year ago. This time as Lebanon was beginning to enjoy one of the best Summer tourist seasons ever, with a predicted income of $4BN and hopes for the return of Lebanon back to relative normalcy, it is Hezbollah that made sure that Lebanon will never enjoy any peace, progress and development.

Instead, our tourists left for Syria and by now all foreign embassies are making contingency plans to remove their subjects from Lebanon. All businesses in Lebanon have been badly crippled and our economy which was sputtering is now well and truly knocked out of action. Is it that Syria simply cannot live with the fact that it is now out of Lebanon? Is it that it will never leave Lebanon any hope to have peace, unity, stability and development? Is it once more the hands of Syria and Iran that have shaken the entire country if not the entire region?

Is Hezbollah so hypocritical and so darn indifferent to the plight of their own people the Lebanese, preferring instead the furtherance of Syria’s and Iran’s agenda in the country and the entire region? By all accounts it seems so and well beyond any reasonable doubt that Hezbollah is indeed and in fact the worse hoax the Lebanese have and are currently witnessing. Hezbollah has lied and continues to lie. Where on earth does Hezbollah have any more pretexts or excuses to continue the fight against Israel? Hasn’t Israel withdrawn back to their side of the international border and has kept it’s side of the deal? Is the Shebbaa issue not clear enough and best left to international arbitration? Is it not clear enough that Lebanon can no longer afford anymore pain and isn’t peace and stability the better option for all Lebanese, and I mean every sensible Lebanese? So why this latest aggression against Israel, WHY?

It takes a real fool to believe Hezbollah’s version needing the release of its prisoners in Israeli jails, the real motive is by far more cynical as it is part of a much wider agenda by the axis of evil, Syria and Iran of which Hezbollah and Hamas are part and parcel. In fact there is growing involvement of Iranian personnel in Lebanese soil actively directing Hezbollah’s operations against Israel…even if all Lebanon was to be destroyed, Hezbollah according to the Iranians has to achieve victory!!!!??......

I therefore believe that I wrote above are fully verifiable facts to prove beyond doubt that I have not reasoned unjustifiably nor have I spoken in an isolated position. Much contrary to the general belief, Hezbollah certainly does NOT enjoy the support or solidarity of all the Lebanese people. It’s quite possible that it enjoys the support of its constituent base, the Shias, but again I am in no doubt that here Hezbollah does not enjoy support from all Shias.

So I ask again, why do we see so much hypocrisy from parts of the Arab and Muslim world? Why do we have such a jester and clown such as the Syrian ambassador to the UN talk so stupidly as if his country and government were exonerated from all blame?!!

Every sensible human being knows well who started this fight, every sensible person knows the consequences, so why keep blaming Israel for all the wrongs taking place in our country??!! Such imbeciles and hypocrites should instead focus the blame on the real culprits Hezbollah, Syria and Iran who should not expect any sympathy from anyone who truly sees world events in their true colors. The more such misguided fools continue with their hypocrisy, the more will the people of Lebanon continue to suffer all the consequences of this latest war. The real tragedy is this: No one will come and help Lebanon; they’ll simply limit their intentions to shout and vent their feeling from afar.

Let’s face facts just for posterity, most Arab states have diplomatic relationships and close contacts with Israel and no one has ever been aggressed and even more, no one is willing to break such relationships. Not one Arab state ever won a war against Israel, no one ever captured any territory and kept it and all Arabs and even Iran (remember the IranGate deal?) are dealing at some level with Israel, so why all the BS leveled against us, why should we continue someone else’s war.

Unless we Lebanese wish to continue antagonizing ourselves for ever for the hypocrites of all kinds, we should then take the bull by the horn and call a spade a spade. Anything else means that we deserve no better than a nation and a people condemned to live in violence and sheer backwardness.

Peace to all men and women of goodwill.

Source: lebanese-forces.org/vbullet/forumdisplay.php?s=4a77c194c5f322d8531ae72bdc154d06&f=18

[pieter]

Another lebanese Christian:

I dont think we should be focusing of political statements in these few days. Let the government try to negotiate a way out of this mess first through the UN or a third party. The best thing I can see happening is the deployment of the army into the south to protect the border as a first stage.
Lets leave Hisballah issue until things quite down a little, thats when the whole country should demand Hisballah to disarm, as they have proven their inabbility to protect Lebanon.
Whats important, is now gone: Civilians, Summer, tourists, life, stability, buildings, bridges, airport, other ifrastructure and ....
I believe if this move by Hisballah does not lead to disarming the militia group, nothing will ever will...
Then I will say goodbye to Lebanon
Goodbye to forming a nation

[piwo]

admin said:

Bob,

there is no country that does have a right to start a war or to attack another country without being attacked and this is exactly what Israel is doing... and America gives them free ride.

They did preventive bombing in the neighboring countries. Would you love to have a neighbor that is over-reacting like that?

Jaga, Apparently there are people much closer to the issue (Lebenese that Pieter quotes) that don't share your opinion.
best regards

[bescheid]

Pieter

As a person, I have tried to stay clear of this subject as it stood for some days now. Your correct political awareness and excellent assumptions with facts correlated with correct information; is a great credit to you. I do agree with you in your findings. For the most of us, we are not there. And as so, must relye upon facts presented to as as assumed truth, but, in reality, often is slanted or a deviation of the actual event.

It is surprising though, of the lack of information of the sudden cause of these events. And that of the foreign advisers from Iran. The Hezbollah are very easy to use, as long as it fits into their little scheme of things. They have a penchant of blowing things up. Now, it appears, they have lendt them selves up to be used by the Iranians to create a very large smoke screen. This to take away focus of their nuclear programme and then redirect the eyes of the known world, into the land now under duress of both Israel and Lebanon.

With this redirection of focus, Iran may now be some what free from another aerial destruct of their Nuclear centres whilst the Israeli forces are centred against the currant situation.

Charles

[bescheid]

The below, is represented from the:

-Israel Minister of Foreign Affairs-

The statement was given prior to: Operation Just Reward {14 July 2006}


Statement by Foreign Ministry Deputy DG Gideon Meir

13 Jul 2006
Opening statement at press conference with Brig,-Gen. Ido Nehushtan on the Hizbullah attack.

Following are Foreign Ministry Deputy Director-General for Public Affairs Ambassador Gideon Meir's opening statement from his press conference today (Thursday), 13 July 2006, with Brig,-Gen. Ido Nehushtan:

"Israel has suffered an unprovoked cross-border attack from Lebanese territory. The attack was carried out by the Hizbullah, which is a party to the Government of Lebanon. The attack was carried out against Israelis, soldiers and civilians, while on sovereign Israeli soil. In these circumstances, Israel has no alternative but to defend itself and its citizens.

For this reason, Israel is now reacting to an act of war by a neighboring sovereign state. Israel views Lebanon as responsible for the present situation, and it shall bear the consequences for this act.

However, Lebanon is not the only responsible party. Syria hosts in its capital, Damascus, the headquarters of a number of Palestinian Jihadist terrorist groups, including Hamas. They provide shelter and logistical support for Hamas leader Khaled Mashaal, who has been living there for a number of years. From Damascus, Mashaal commands terrorists within the Palestinian territories who carry out ongoing attacks against Israel and its citizens, including the bombardment of southern Israel with Kassam missiles and the recent terrorist infiltration and kidnapping of Israeli soldier Gilad Shalit. Syria also provides support to the Hizbullah, including the transfer of arms, munitions and operatives through the Damascus airport and border crossings into Lebanon. The Hizbullah would not be able to operate in Lebanon without clear Syrian sponsorship.

Iran is the main benefactor of the Hizbullah. It provides funding, weapons and directives for this terrorist organization. For all practical purposes, Hizbullah is merely an arm of the Teheran Jihadist regime. Iran has also made considerable inroads of influence into Palestinian terrorist organization, including Fatah’s al-Aqsa Brigade and Hamas’ Iz a-Din al-Kassam group. It provides their terror cells with funding, technical instruction and operational directives.
Hamas and Hizbullah are driven by an extremist Jihadist ideology which calls for the destruction of the State of Israel – as part of an international effort to wage ‘Holy War’ against the ‘infidel’.

Syria and Iran support these groups, not only because they support their ideology, but also because they provide Damascus and Teheran with a tool to strengthen the influence of their own regimes and to divert attention from other issues which have exposed them lately to international pressure.

Consequently, Israel views Hamas, Hizbullah, Syria and Iran as primary elements in the Axis of Terror and Hate threatening not only Israel but the entire world.

There is a widening consensus in the international arena that Jihadist terror is a global threat which must be confronted with determination and resolve. Israel has been in intensive contact with foreign governments and world organizations, in order to coordinate pressure on these regimes, ensuring they understand that the price that they’ll pay internationally for their support of terrorism will be unbearably high.

With regard to our expectations from Lebanon, it is the responsibility of the Government of Lebanon to fulfill its obligations as a sovereign state to extend its control over its own territory, as called for by Security Council resolutions 425 and 1559. Through our operations, Israel expects both to pressure the Beirut government to take action, and to facilitate this action by providing the international encouragement and the operational conditions favorable to the disarming of Hizbullah and the effective deployment of the Lebanese army southward to the Israel-Lebanon border. This is not only Israel's interest, but that of the Lebanese people and the region as a whole."



Charles

[Bob S]

;)Pieter. Thank you for your insight and information from Holland and another point of view plus the information. Besides what is happening today, it is difficult for many people to remember what happened in the past. A lot of people forget what happened last week let alone the daily occurences that happened during the past five thousand years or more. There is a lot of history involved in what is happening today.