Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Feb 2, 2008 6:19:57 GMT -7
Yes I will turn sarcastic again. Lets give the audience only what they wait for. Dancing shows, big brother shows, comedy and soap-opera's ..... Good. Sarcasm is OK here. Well then, don`t give the audience what they expect. Give them difficult films and books as food for thought. One question arises: who will give you money to produce those films and publish books? Second question arises: who will watch another film about Polish martyrology? ? The truth is that if it wasn`t school students who are herded by teachers (including me) to go to see Katyn in cinemas, Wajda`s film would be a financial failure. Don`t you understand that most Poles have had enough films or books about Polish martyrology??
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Feb 2, 2008 6:48:23 GMT -7
I think I am slowly, very slowly, so very slowly starting to understand the fundamentals on which you've built your erroneous position, Pawian ;D ;D ;D You're from Kraków!! You are used to cosy little spaces. Czechia is a good example, Slovenja would be better. Yes, Krakow is a good explanation though the cozy small places are wrong supposition. Kraków means reason and intelligence. Warsaw was always full of hot heads ready to plunge into fire while Krakow was full of reasonable intellectuals who knew the odds. Prague vs Warsaw isn`t the matter of taste. It`s the matter of fact.
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Post by livia on Feb 2, 2008 8:16:15 GMT -7
Kraków means reason and intelligence. Warsaw was always full of hot heads ready to plunge into fire while Krakow was full of reasonable intellectuals who knew the odds. ;D ;D ;D ;D you think so? I understand you're positive the with the always reasonable intellectuals of Kraków (as you see it) Poland wouldn't have ended up with the size of Czechia. As opposed to us primitive hotheads from Warszawa, Poznań, Gdańsk , Radom, Wrocław (Lwów, Wilno) who plunged into the fire. Nothing against Czechia or Czech people here, obviously you like Czechia too. But I would assume a litlle more ambition and sometimes even, brrrrr, action, and -God forbid!! - combat is needed to maintain the country of Poland's size and weight. Nice, deeply intellectual deliberations over a pint is not enough, even if nobody gets out hurt form the pub. Well, at least usually. You previously said Prague is the most beautiful in Eastern Europe and I responded it is a matter of taste. You responded with Warszawa. (Which is still a matter of taste, not an objective fact.) Pawian, are you one of those people from Kraków who have some trouble with Warszawa?
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Feb 2, 2008 11:21:27 GMT -7
;D ;D ;D ;D you think so? I understand you're positive the with the always reasonable intellectuals of Kraków (as you see it) Poland wouldn't have ended up with the size of Czechia. Of course not. Look at the map of Poland when Krakow was the capital: You see? From sea to sea!! hahahahahahaha And what happened when Warsaw became a capital? Partitions!!! hahahahaha Who was better taking care of the country: Krakowians or Warsawians? hahahahahaha Hotheads from Wrocław? You mean Volksturm that fought hard against Soviet armies?? hahahaha As for Lvov, which hotheads do you mean? Polish or Ukrainian? Yes, I like them and their literature. I still wonder how Czechs could survive so easily all European brawls. I think it is their sybaritic laziness. Poles could learn from Czechs a lot! hahahaha Combat? Yes, why not. Do you also mean combat with bare hands against tanks??? If so, count me out. Bare hands against tanks won`t help either. Yes, I have a problem with Warszawa. I love this city so much and every time I see old pictures of pre-war Warsaw I get angry at Poles` stupidity which always makes us piss against the wind, and then wake up with wet pants. It is sad. Warsaw could be more beautiful than Prague today.
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Post by valpomike on Feb 2, 2008 12:04:02 GMT -7
Pawian,
What could the people of Poland, and more so, Warsaw have done? The people of France gave up, and kept there city, but lost so much more. Poland did not. They do not give up. Self respect is worth much, to all. I would like to think the people here in the U.S.A. would stand up and fight, and not just give up, to save landmarks. I know I would.
Michael Dabrowski
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Post by livia on Feb 3, 2008 4:45:35 GMT -7
These Warsawians who took care of the country were Krakowians who moved in. Until that time we lived peacefully and happily. We had no peasant or miners arriving from whatever strange places they arrive to block the city with their demonstrations. We had no Jędruś Lepper types here. No Pęczak. No Dochanal and his entourage. They could all be still flocking to Kraków instead. Why weren't you able to keep them in Kraków? It is all your fault! In case of Wrocław I meant the after 1945 period. You must have heard of a stong Solidarity there And in the brackets I wrote their cities of origin, they came mainly from Lwów and partly from Wilno. In Lwów there were hotheads of all ethnicities imaginable in Central-Eastern Europe living side-by-side for so many years. I think we also have the sybaritic laziness group of mentallity (Kraków ;D ;D ;D ;D ). But luckily they don't prevail! Are you now going to sell me another propaganda myth saying Polish forces attacked tanks with cavalry? And don't count yourself out so easily. I hope it will never happen again but if it does you can't know how you would act. My grandparents told me those who were most reluctant about the combat in disputes usually jumped as the first on the barricade. So you never know! There're more importants things in life than beautiful buildings. And my personal wish to you. Could you please make some of your saying less wind and pants formatted? Could you? Pleasssssse ;D ;D ;D
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Post by valpomike on Feb 3, 2008 11:09:42 GMT -7
Very well said.
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Feb 3, 2008 15:10:07 GMT -7
Thank you ,Mike. I knew I could count on you. You are a real support. Together forever!
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Post by valpomike on Feb 3, 2008 16:32:43 GMT -7
Pawian, Teach, my note was for someone who knows and cares, Livia, not you. I hope sometime again, we can think alike. But not this time.
Michael Dabrowski
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Feb 4, 2008 0:15:27 GMT -7
I hope sometime again, we can think alike. But not this time. Michael Dabrowski Upływa szybko życie Jak potok płynie czas Za dzień, za rok , za chwilę Razem nie będzie nas I nasze młode lata Popłyną szybko w dal A w sercu pozostanie Tęsknota, smutek, żal
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Post by livia on Feb 4, 2008 3:21:10 GMT -7
Michael, thank you for keeping my morale up!!! ;D ;D ;D
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Pawian
European
Have you seen my frog?
Posts: 3,266
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Post by Pawian on Feb 4, 2008 7:46:02 GMT -7
These Warsawians who took care of the country were Krakowians who moved in. Only at the beginning. When Krakowian colonists saw what Warsaw was like, the quagmire full of mosquitoes and frogs, they hastily returned to civilised Krakow. And since then Warsaw was inhabited only by Warsavians. Everything what happened in Warsaw is your business. It is your fault. Those political and financial gangsters fulfilled the gap created by the Warsaw Uprising. Instead of keeping quiet like Krakow, Warsaw ventured on a crazy enterprise and in consequence lost its best people. We were talking about hotheads. I don`t think that Solidarity guys in Wrocław were hotheads. Did they organize an armed rebellion there? Hmm...... Yes, Lvov as a Polish island in the Ukrainian ocean was really side by side cohabitation. Under Polish gun threat. Am I trying to sell anything??? Do I look like a salesman??? No, I don`t know, I might join in and defend the barricade with my bare hands and die like a fool, because sometimes I do behave like a complete idiot and lunatic. George can say something about it. Hey George, take a chance and corroborate! hahahahaha Beautiful buildings make a beautiful environment which is very important for people to feel happy. Whhhyyyyyy? ?? Tell me because I have no idea.
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Post by holaola on Feb 4, 2008 7:56:45 GMT -7
Very queer reasoning. So, when Gross doesn`t try to explain Polish murderers`s behaviour, just leaves it like that and relates cold facts only, does it mean he is lying? I wasn't referring to Gross and my meaning is simple enough: by mentioning only the losses of one particular social group and never any other, it would appear that only this one group had losses while all the others came through the war unscathed. This is not true. I am much more interested in recent Polish achievements. I like to discuss the way that Poles fought communism. I have no quarrel with this – there is nothing, surely, to prevent you from discussing this. I’m sure everyone would want to know more about this time. It is a typical cheap Polish sentimentalism which I have always tried to avoid. It is so bombastically pathetic that I refuse to comment on it. Well, typical and sentimental my comment may be – but what do you mean by cheap? holaola saidTalk about “Little Polish controversies”!!!! What could be more controversial than that? Pawian said Yet, the title was attractive enough to draw your attention and provoke you to post here quite often. hahahahaha This thread is very interesting indeed so I’m not quite sure what you intend to say by this remark. My point is that it is quite controversial (and therefore fitting for the thread) to call any little word of admiration for those combatants who sacrificed their lives for Poland “typical cheap sentimentalism of a bombastically pathetic nature”. [iholaola said: Would you also object if another book on the Jewish Holocaust were written? Pawian said: I have no idea what you mean now.. You appear to suffer from boredom only where the Poles of this period are concerned – that is what I mean. I am a patriot too, but my heroes are different. I am fed up with this constant Polish whining, with all those fallen heroes who first acted and then thought and the only pathetic contribution they made was their noble death. Why exactly do you consider the death of a soldier as her/his “only pathetic contribution”? Soldiers don’t want to die, and I’m sure most would have preferred not to have had to fight. Unfortunately in the army no-one asks soldiers their opinions. They did what they had to do, and some died. What do you mean by “pathetic”?
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Post by holaola on Feb 4, 2008 8:09:09 GMT -7
Don`t you understand that most Poles have had enough films or books about Polish martyrology?? Everyone knows that the Poles know about their war efforts. It's the rest of the world that doesn't know - at least they know nothing of the good things the Poles did. All they ever hear about is how wicked the Poles were towards the Jews. That is the problem. I'm having a bit of a problem with finding any information about what the people of Krakow did during the war, by the way. Has anybody found any interesting sites about this, please?
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Post by livia on Feb 4, 2008 8:43:02 GMT -7
I disagree. Certain kind of people flock to the capital where the power amd money is. In Poland and elsewhere. The uprising has nothing to do with it.
Everyone in communist Poland who thought breaking free and totally changing the system is possible and fought for it was considered a 'hothead' and ridiculed. By exactly the same layer of people who never want to fight but always remain silent (to save beautiful buildings perhaps). All they were able to think about was reforming Poland to 'socialdemocracy' and staying inside Warsaw Pact cooperating with Moscow. One of such ridiculed as 'hothead' men was Kondrad Morawiecki and the organization he formed - Solidarność Walcząca from Wrocław.
Polish gun threat in Lwów! hahahaha Pawian, my great grandparents would laugh their heads off!
Beautiful souls and unbreakable backs make people much more happy.
Beacuse you're a gentleman.
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